ESP is still not optimized.

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sungho Korea South
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ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by sungho »

Even though it uses a 24-core CPU, it still produces pop noise. I only used 1 midi channel. This is still a beta version.

========== 2024-07-24
I have a professional music system. I'm using an optimized PC. There is no problem even if you use 100 channels of EW OPUS.
Simultaneous playback of 200 NI Kontak channels works without a problem.
However, using ESP will result in poorer audio performance.
When I play a 1-channel EP patch that I created using 8 layers, the audio performance is overdone and click noise occurs.
Awaiting optimization.
Last edited by sungho on Tue Jul 23, 2024 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sonic2000gr Greece
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by sonic2000gr »

I am not surprised, but I guess it's still in the early stages and this is really a first for Yamaha. They need more time.
Besides, Montage and Montage M are not VSTs in a box. They have custom DSP hardware that runs the synthesis engines effortlessly but it's much more difficult to emulate on generic CPUs. They will get there eventually.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by davlippo7 »

Scott ran 128 copies before his computer made pops & noise as it began having trouble.

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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by sonic2000gr »

davlippo7 wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:33 pm Scott ran 128 copies before his computer made pops & noise as it began having trouble.
Well yes, but AFAIR he upgraded recently and his computer is a beast and costs probably the equivalent of a Montage.
I would not bother spending so much on a PC AND a workstation synth. I understand people that need this setup, but if I ever get an M, I would like the ESP to run well enough on a mid spec laptop, that I can take with me instead of the M.
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ChrisN United States of America
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by ChrisN »

sungho wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:35 am Even though it uses a 24-core CPU, it still produces pop noise. I only used 1 midi channel. This is still a beta version.
I would seriously look into whether something is reducing your ability to run multiple real time instances of audio. I have a what is now a dated laptop (i7, 32 gigs RAM, Mv and SSD storage, GForce graphics) and can run multiple instances of ESP. Not a 128…that was crazy. I haven’t tried to test it for max because I’m always worried where my Laptops threshold is. I had to do a good bit of Windows optimizations to get Cubase 13 and VSTi to behave.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by StuartR »

sonic2000gr wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:47 am I am not surprised, but I guess it's still in the early stages and this is really a first for Yamaha. They need more time.
Besides, Montage and Montage M are not VSTs in a box. They have custom DSP hardware that runs the synthesis engines effortlessly but it's much more difficult to emulate on generic CPUs. They will get there eventually.
Along with that possible issue, I've discovered it's not full featured either. No ability to play/record audio or MIDI, missing the Split button functionality.

So not very useful for content creation, IMHO. I'll be testing the output sound quality this weekend and report back.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by StuartR »

sungho wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:35 am Even though it uses a 24-core CPU, it still produces pop noise. I only used 1 midi channel. This is still a beta version.
This could be a result of the audio interface and driver buffer settings. Without those details we can't draw any further conclusions.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by ChrisDuncan »

I was able to get 2.0 installed for Cubase on my Windows 10 laptop, and while the laptop is not a beast, it holds up well under a significant load. The ESP plugin, however, was completely unusable for the same reasons that you experienced.

It's a pretty impressive plugin, so perhaps it needs a pretty impressive computer.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by StuartR »

I'm running ESP 2.0 on Cubase Elements 13 on a current generation Intel I7 Ultra, 32Mb, SSD laptop with a Korg KeyStage MIDI keyboard. It works pretty good with the exception of random Port Open message box pop ups. What Yamaha has done so far is quite impressive.

Makes a decent practice rig when away from my hardware M boards.
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by Sergievsky »

StuartR wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:54 am I'm running ESP 2.0 on Cubase Elements 13 on a current generation Intel I7 Ultra, 32Mb, SSD laptop with a Korg KeyStage MIDI keyboard. It works pretty good with the exception of random Port Open message box pop ups. What Yamaha has done so far is quite impressive.

Makes a decent practice rig when away from my hardware M boards.
Do you think that Keystage + ESP can substitute for an M6 for a live gig? or are there not enough buttons & such on the Keystage or it's not integrated enough with each other?
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by StuartR »

It's possible of course but if you rely on scenes, you may not have quick enough access to select these on the ESP laptop screen (assuming it's touch compatible). Also, you'll lose quick access to the Live Set programs as they are on a different, non-overlapping ESP window. The last thing that comes to mind is the overall sound quality may not be there as I can't imagine the KeyStage audio interface being as good as the hardware M offers.

But, in a pinch, you definitely could make this work. :dance:
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by ChrisDuncan »

I think the biggest advantage that an M6 has is that it's not a computer.

Especially with the current trend of companies pushing out automatic updates whether you want them or not, a computer is higher risk than a dedicated keybard in terms of something going sideways on you due to an OS update, software you installed, a configuration change you made or just the phase of the moon.

It's worth noting that computers are completely useless slabs of metal and plastic until you install software. Ironically, however, the single most evil thing you can do to destabilize a computer is install software.

To be sure, when it's stable it's a powerful tool. That said, I imagine everyone here has stories of hours or days they've wasted because something went wrong and they had to spend their day being a computer tech rather than making music.
StuartR United States of America
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by StuartR »

sungho wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:35 am Even though it uses a 24-core CPU, it still produces pop noise. I only used 1 midi channel. This is still a beta version.
Sorry I was remiss not posting about this sooner. If you're running the ESP under Windows then you'll want (need) to optimize the Windows host machine to handle real-time audio.

Here are links to everything you'll need to accomplish this:

https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

https://www.resplendence.com/download/LatencyMon.exe
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ChrisN United States of America
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by ChrisN »

StuartR wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 2:12 pm
sungho wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:35 am Even though it uses a 24-core CPU, it still produces pop noise. I only used 1 midi channel. This is still a beta version.
Sorry I was remiss not posting about this sooner. If you're running the ESP under Windows then you'll want (need) to optimize the Windows host machine to handle real-time audio.

Here are links to everything you'll need to accomplish this:

https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

https://www.resplendence.com/download/LatencyMon.exe
Thanks!
The Cantabile PDF is pretty nice. Especially anyone just getting into this stuff. Anyone who doesn’t understand the Windows platform and its contrary behavior with DAW’s especially Cubase should go through the optimizations. While it’s always fun and easy to rag on Microsoft I tend split the blame evenly between MS and OS platform developers, software developers and also processor Mfg.

…and while some will say get a Mac and not worry, unfortunately that is not 100% the case in every scenario and every case.
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Saul Ukraine
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Re: ESP is still not optimized.

Unread post by Saul »

ChrisN wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:54 am
…and while some will say get a Mac and not worry, unfortunately that is not 100% the case in every scenario and every case.
That is always going to be true to a degree but Apple and their software vendors are not having to contend with myriad configurations of hardware. This is why the mac is such a stable platform for musicians, website developers and artists. Less time battling with the tech and more time being creative.

I have two macs. An old mac pro from 2009 which still works absolutely fine and I have macOS Sonoma running on it. And my daily workhorse which is an AMD Ryzen based Hackintosh which I think I have been running since around 2015. I built this machine after my iMac died and I couldn't afford to spend what was then well over a grand to buy a new one.

The only software I have ever had trouble running on this machine was Cubase but the latest version seems to run without any problems. It is though too complex for my needs. Oh an virtualization doesn't work on the AMD based Hackintosh platform but I rarely need that. If I do I can switch over to the mac pro.

I am not sure how well the ESP sofware would work but given that I have a pretty hefty machine and it easily meets the maximum requirements I think it would be ok. Although I am not going to take out a mortgage and buy a Montage M just to find out 😂

So the mac platform is worth considering at least 👍
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